Can both E9 and C6 tuning be achieved on most S10's?

[Daniel Morris]

The LKV is empty, and could be used to lower the (5th string) B to A#, which is useful for E9 and B6 (C6 change on D10).

[J D Sauser]

I've been thinking about this question a lot lately.
One tuning which always called my attention was Zane Beck's "Universal", because he seemed able to not only do "both sides" but play in a style which was a "smoothie" of both in ONE sound. His "Country playing" was like none of he E9th players and so was his Jazz and Pop playing unlike any of the C, B and Bb6th players.
Most of all, attractive to me, he seemed to be able to generate complex chords on the thinner strings... essentially playing "Jazz" in the sound register for which typically E9th is know for.
The setup was 4 or 5 pedals. But like the new D13th tuning, it's not really an E->Eb-lever generated "Universal".
When you look at the BIG difference of Maurice's Bb6th compared to the "BE"-C6th... is that it does not peak out at C6th's high E (for those with a D on top), the 3rd of C, and not only incorporates the 5th (the high G string on C6th for those which have NOT replaced with a D on top... No his top G was the 6th! and that gave him chordal structures usually only found on in the thicker strings on a "BE"-C6th. You can hear his higher pitched playing on records Maurice did in the late 60's and 70's before he conformed to play more like most everybody played on C6th (well, in his own way, still playing chords which would leave some C6th Greats staring at him speechless.).

I think that IF one wants to go 10 string E9th "allraounder" (not AS on the E->Eb lever generated E9th->B6th)... you would first want to remove the D-string (#9) and put it as a change on a lever, which will give you a bassy root string on #10.
Similarly to the D13th setup which is being discussed a lot now, you would want to look close at not only your E->Eb B6th but at your A&B-down generated A6th, and you E tuning (possibly A-pedal down (E13th)).
I would take a VERY close look at D13 transposing it to E and C to understand it better. Apply that understanding to E13th, B6th and A6th.
I would also look at Zane Beck's tuning and you might want to engage Zane King (Zane's protege, as I understand).
Maybe also look at Joaquin Murphey's tuning which I BELIEVE was an constant evolution from the E13th era.

The requirement for all that, just like with the recent development of D13th, it originates from a DEEP understanding of E9th AND C6th and also the traditional "Universal" setups. I tried to come up with a condensed setup I thought was "smart" when I had played PSG only one year. What I totally overlooked, and thus it was a total failure, was the need to make pedal-lever combinations as available as possibly. One thing is to have 5 pedals and 4 levers on a tuning. But it should be setup up so you can to more than 9 individual changes... but twice as many changes from pedal-lever combinations. My C6th is now setup that I can trigger the changes of P5, 6, & 7 and lower my A-string half (split) with ONE foot on two pedal and 2 levers. On a traditional "BE"-C6th, this is only accessible to well trained circus-ready contortionists. E9th is another GREAT example of a well arranged setup which instead of having a double row of pedals reaching all across the pedal board achieves a "myriad" of changes from combinations.


I like 12 strings. I feel it's extremely easy (my usual "it's a 3 month thing") to get used to and I find it more difficult to play on narrower tunings, because, while on a 12 string to be honest one uses the center 10 strings the most... it gives added support to the bar. I have a string on top of my top D-string on C6th... and I play it occasionally, more for chords than anything, but it makes my D-string picking so much more "secure" because just like elsewhere there is still a string in front of the bullet nose, giving it the same feel than most any other string.
But yes, I think that with the right thinking and just like Zane Beck must have done, a fully Jazz voicing and E9th crying setup has to be possible... one will just not find tablature for it (which I would call a "good thing") but the payer would have to understand E9th and the traditional 6th tunings and learn his/her own tuning like Zane and a few others with non-traditional tunings did.

In other words, "Beware What You Wish For"... but "Good Luck" too, because I would LOVE to see somebody succeed at such an endeavor... J-D.

[Dave Grafe]

No, but C6 voicings can be played on E9, as on this popular ditty

https://youtu.be/O14ontM76gA?si=JnrKdVxBPMn41aSn

This intro is actually harder to play on a C6 neck btw

[Val Drummond]

Here is Dan Burnham’s (BMI) Jet 10 Copedent.

[J D Sauser]

No, but C6 voicings can be played on E9, as on this popular ditty

https://youtu.be/O14ontM76gA?si=JnrKdVxBPMn41aSn

This intro is actually harder to play on a C6 neck btw

I remember walking up to a pedal steel guitarist in Europe playing Western Swing set with Sugar Ray Ford (I believe from Britain?), who was playing up a storm an S-10 with 3 pedal and MAYBE as many as 4 levers in the 1980's . I was still non pedal. I just knew that style was expected on C6th with 5P & at least 1 lever. He showed me briefly that he played with either the E's down (adding the B-pedal, A&B) or A&B's down adding the Eb lever and also "open" (no changes) with the bottom D-string and saying "with that you got the essence of what's on a basic C6th as they played back then!" (Western Swing era).
It goes towards what I've been trying to say... a lot, mainly the basic stuff IS there on E9th because it has three 6th sides:
-open with the A-pedal down (E13th)
-E's lowered (B6th)
- A&B's down (A6th)

The B pedal is a common C6th add-on change
Adding the Eb-lever to A&B's down is like P5 (the "Two Below"- 7/9th)
open E9th is closely related to P6
One could easily add a P7 to the E's-down B6th and be "almost there"

it's easier to play Swing on E9th than it is to play "today's Country" on C6th!

Did I forget to suggest looking at Bud Carter's setup. S12, but I believe with only 5&5. Could be a good one to study too.


.... J-D.

[Dave Grafe]

Spot on J D

"it's easier to play Swing on E9th than it is to play "today's Country" on C6th!"

I played sixths on western swing music for years before I got a double neck guidar. Most of the jazz tunes I prefer to play on the back neck still can be nicely voiced on the 10-string E9 with 3+4