What To Purchase Is confusing

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 27 Mar 2013 1:58 pm

I've been reading posted topics concerning Digital Work Stations and computer software. I'm still not sure which way to go. I'm leaning toward Zoom R-16 and computer software. Then the decision, which software? A simple approach would be something like the D-3200 or Tascam equivalent. Then the decision of storage capacity and hard drive vs flash card?
I'd like to have a simple live gig 8 track recording capability as an option to home studio without having to purchase seperate systems.
If I went with a stand alone work station like the D-3200, which recorder has an effects loop for mixing with outboard effects? I read negative responses to many of the onboard effects in many units and may like to use my rack gear to mix a dry track.
Thanks.
Confusing decisions?

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Mar 2013 3:55 am

I've owned all of the aobve types of setups that you describe.

Get a Zoom R16 or 24. It will do all of your live recordings. It will also capture all of the tracks you need in your home studio.

Then port your Zoom files to the PC. You can also do the drums and piano tracks, for example, on the pc ahead of time, port them to the Zoom, add live tracks to the zoom, port back to the PC and do the final edit and master on the PC. Reaper is a powerful and economical way to do your PC work. I use all .wav files until the final master where I make a .wav and an mp3 file for final posting. Porting back and forth between the PC and Zoom takes about 3 minutes on a memory card.

This gives you the advanced editing and mastering capabilities of the PC. It's faster and more precise to finish the job on the PC. You can do the drums and piano parts in stereo on the PC, and even add stereo reverb to some of the lead parts you recorded live, later, to get a fatter sound on them.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Zoom%20R24%2 ... tudio.html

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/EZKeys/EZKeys.html

Greg

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Mar 2013 5:37 am

I would recommend going with a USB audio interface unit and a recording program. Many devices come with a recording program such as Cubase LE, Sonar LE, etc.

I started on hard drive recorders and went to computer based recording about 5 years ago and haven't looked back. So much more you can do with computer based. I've progressed to a sophisticated home studio with Sonar X2 software and a Roland Octa-Capture 8 channel interface unit and other associated hardware and software. But, you don't need all that, just an interface unit such as the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 ($149.99) at Sweetwater Music.
It comes with Abelton Live 8 recording software.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett2i2/

There are other similar units with software. I've had bad experiences with Presonus recording interface units so they are not on my buy list.

Here's an Maudio unit that comes with Pro Tools LE
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FastTrkUSB2/

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 28 Mar 2013 9:30 am

Greg, apparently Zoom R24 can only record on 8 tracks at once, I do my backing tracks in BIAB, & Real tracks are Stereo in many cases, therefor they can take 10 or 12 tracks. So on my D3200 it still leaves me with quite a few Tracks open..
What would happen in the Zoom R24?? Short of hooking up 2 recorders together, then the cost Escalates.. I like Jack's idea a lot, except My computer room is only 6'x8', & Desktop computer is what I have with external speakers.. Where to record?? so the D3200 serves my purpose real well. I can record with it, even take it out to record., mix in it & burn to a CD right there, or I can send the tracks back to the computer via USB cable. best of both worlds, unless I come across a big inheritance to buy a good Laptop, & then there's speakers etc.Oh & a bigger room.. LOL
No easy answer..

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Mar 2013 9:58 am

The R24 can record 8 tracks at once. It can play back 24 tracks at once. It can save and record an unlimited number of tracks for one project as you can re-assign each track and it will save the previously assigned track in memory for later use. My average project is about 35 tracks with each piano and drum track being stereo. No hard drive to crash and it's extremely portable.

On the down side (compared to my AW2400 for example) the imputs will be noisy on low impedance mics so you will need preamps unless you keep the signal levels high on the Zooms.

It's best to have a variety of tools and there are always trade-offs to each approach. With Reaper I can add effects, normalize, chop out noisy areas, compress, add volume envelopes etc in seconds with of course unlimited tracks. Reaper runs well on the average home computer with no freezes, clicks or pops. In a few minutes I can render a wav or mp3 file they use windows explorer or WMP to burn CD's.

Greg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Mar 2013 1:11 pm

Dennis Detweiler wrote: I'd like to have a simple live gig 8 track recording capability as an option to home studio without having to purchase seperate systems.

You can't serve two masters...HOME recording and LIVE GIGS .

If LIVE gigs is a steady requirement, PC recording is NOT an option..the R16 or R24 is a much more realistic choice. Down the road should you add HOME PC recording to your collection of things, the Zoom R16 or R24 will be a good fit to work in concert with the Home PC setup. In the meantime you can record at the gig or at home, the Zoom doesn't know or care where you are !

Does the D3200 record in wav files ? Today, I would not purchase any recorder that did not record in separate wav files/ track and have a very easy way to retrieve them, USB or SD card, which I prefer .

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 28 Mar 2013 1:38 pm

Yes the D3200 records in Wave files, & does have USB for transferring, Again I'm not saying the D3200 is the total answer but certainly a good all in one alternative for my needs. If something happens to it I'll certainly look at the Zoom.
I've never had a place to look at a Zoom, so I don't know how user friendly it is. The D3200 is User friendly to me, but again that's all I know.. Guess it's time to branch out into the real world of recording..

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 28 Mar 2013 3:34 pm

Thanks! Good input!

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 29 Mar 2013 11:04 am

Just posted in another thread on the R16. It has lots of great features, is quite portable (6 AA) and is reasonably affordable. Ive used it for tracking drums, demo and live recording. I like to mix in Logic Studio Pro on a Mac, though you can record and mix just in the Zoom too.
I also ran into the need for more inputs (dont we always!?) for live use, so a second unit was an obvious solution. One is set to Master and the other to Slave, and the Master unit does the transport functions. It works! There is a very slight lag time after recording all 16 tracks at once, but hey, thats a lot of information going to a couple of 32Gb SDHC cards.

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 29 Mar 2013 9:09 pm

Any of the Mackie I series mixers will do both live sound and record via Firewire quite well. Also the Midas F32 Venice is a killer live sound desk with 32 Channel I/O ( 32 in 32 out) capability. The Mackie I's will work with any of the DAW's plus they come with Traktion recording software. I have personal experience with both the 1640 and the 1640I recording live and in studio

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 30 Mar 2013 2:13 am

The only problem with most firewire audio interface units is that they want a T.I. firewire chipset interface in the PC. Some will work with a few other FW interfaces but the majority need the T.I. chipset.

This comes up frequently on recording forums.

Dave LaSalle · Post by **Dave LaSalle** » 30 Mar 2013 2:29 am

anybody remember when you had splice tape I know , old school

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 30 Mar 2013 7:25 am

I can't imagine working without seeing the waveform and the Tab to Transient function. I humbly bow to the guys that know how to cut and splice tape, and produced the quality that they did back in the day

Jack, what is your opinion of the USB interfaces versus Firewire, does USB have the speed and information carrying ability that FW does?

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 12 Jun 2013 9:01 pm

I'd go with a computer based DAW like SONAR. Computers are just sooooo much easier to work with.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 12 Jun 2013 9:04 pm

You could get a small mixer like a 2-channel Behringer and use the preamps from it. Then use any decent mic you can find. SM-58s are easy to get for less than $100.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Jun 2013 3:09 am

Dennis wants to record LIVE GIGS..perhaps 8 tracks at a time...

You could bring a laptop with multiple interface inputs to a gig or you can buy a small 16 or 24 track which records 8 at a time for $300 ! Sure, you can bring a laptop with a 8 or 16 channel interface, that is a choice....

Like Greg, I have owned many types of recorders, still do, also run Pro-Tools ( and Sonar ) on the PC for all home tracking. For off site recording , now and then, you cannot beat a small portable piece of plastic that records 8 at a time onto an SD card in wave format.

Inside the $300 or $400 budget, the Zoom finds it's way...sure it has a somewhat qwirky menu but so did all of the workstations I previously owned...it's not difficult to learn, it's just different...

SD card and wave file is a fine way to go for portable...

Thats my take...

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 13 Jun 2013 5:01 am

Ok, then we need to add a mixer like one of the Phonic Helix FireWire mixers.

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