Unique copedent design for guitarist adapting to psg

[Dave Grafe]

Thinking maybe I should start with a lap steel, though I'm concerned about not being able to play slants in tune. That's what got me thinking about pedals.

Different instruments entirely requiring different hand techniques and mental frameworks. Same with a dobro, might as well be a trombone for what they have in common, other than strings and a bar. You're well on track with your S10 PSG plan.

[Cam West]

Paul Franklin, who I played bass with years ago, said C6 is way easier. The logic for ease of resale was, have Ron build an E9 3 pedal 2 knee all pull and then change it to c6 when I get it. And swap back to E9 if I want to sell. That makes sense to me.

[Tim Toberer]

I've got a video on my YouTube channel about how to make one half-stop mechanism work on multiple levers, and it could apply to pedals, although for foot-driven changes, I'd probably go to a stouter spring
https://youtu.be/dU97wLjQoCk

That is really clever! I want to add half stops to a couple raises. It is funny cause in my mind and on paper it will work, but I know adding them will probably cause more problems than it will be worth. LOL

[Dave Grafe]

Paul Franklin, who I played bass with years ago, said C6 is way easier. The logic for ease of resale was, have Ron build an E9 3 pedal 2 knee all pull and then change it to c6 when I get it. And swap back to E9 if I want to sell. That makes sense to me.

The mechanics of E9 and C6 necks and pedals are entirely different, and while Paul may have shared that experience with you I doubt that it is a common sentiment among all steel players. I depends entirely on what music you want to play so make your choices accordingly and have Ron build the guitar you want to play. Understand that the Emmons and Franklin C6 copedants use more pedals and fewer levers than their E9 necks.

[Bill McCloskey]

“ C6 is way easier. The logic for ease of resale was, have Ron build an E9 3 pedal 2 knee all pull and then change it to c6 when I get it.”

Then you might want to consider having a 12 string lap steel made and put Reece Anderson’s 12 String Extended C6 tuning on it. C6 is easier in some ways but harder in other ways. Easier in that it is built on a chord so hard to hit a wrong note. But more difficult in the sense of single string work where you have to work much harder with your left hand. On E9th, I can do not only a scale on a single fret, I can do a complete set of diatonic chords on one fret. On C6, that would be impossible. E9th is a “lick machine” to quote Paul Franklin. 6th, not so much.

If you’ve played with Paul, you can reach him through the forum. He is a member. Ask him directly what he thinks.

[Cam West]

Thank you all for your input. Perhaps I should get a lap steel, try different tuning and see how I adapt before going psg

[Donny Hinson]

I'm an old multi-instrumentalist with some physical issues just designing a layout for Ron Anderson to build me a guitar. I've arrived at a copedent I believe will allow me to most easily adapt my guitar and theory knowledge. It's contrary in some ways to what most players use, though the logic, I believe, directly applies to guitarists whose interest is chordal fluidity.

So then, if you were "adapting" to violin instead of pedal steel, would you add two strings and frets so you could better implement your guitar theory to the violin?

Probably not! (Said with tongue-in-cheek humor. )

I'm a PSG hacker, with just a little musical knowledge, but I see pedal steel as a unique instrument. It's not about chords and scales, it's about that unique way of sliding from one note or chord to another. It's about the sound! Once you realize that, you'll understand that getting every imaginable chord or being to play an entire scale without moving the bar isn't the main idea. In fact, it's really the antithesis of the instrument.

[K Maul]

Thinking maybe I should start with a lap steel, though I'm concerned about not being able to play slants in tune. That's what got me thinking about pedals.

Your concern here is a main reason why pedals were invented. Having said that…listen to Jerry Byrd with no pedals at all. Lloyd Green makes extensive use of accurate slants WITH pedals.
Justice steels are excellent and I encourage you to go that route.

[James P Mitchell]

I guess I am slightly doubtful about the OP's premise here. I also came to the pedal steel after having spent years playing conventional guitar. If I had to put the challenges involved in order of difficulty, adapting my guitar and theory knowledge wouldn't even be on the list.

I am too - although I'm a big fan of experimentation so who knows, he might hit a home run in one.

OP - If I were really wanted to make transferring guitar easier and keep six strings, I'd get a lap steel and put some palm benders on it. And use a tuning that is already established. The general idea is to not do more than one new hard thing at once, and you're trying to do like 5 hard new things at once. Half-stops can be really hard to get in tune. A new tuning often looks better on paper than in reality. Then you have to learn to play the damn thing. There's a reason why the tunings that stuck around did. I'd highly recommend spending some time with open E. Then check out G. Then a 6th tuning like C6. Learn how slants work and understand why we would want pedals in the first place. I think the problem comes in inventing a tuning and thinking of pedals/levers as different ways to get as many chords in one position as possible.

All that being said, good luck and share your results! Hope it works for you

[Bob Hoffnar]

This might help a little. You can extrapolate the scale info into diatonic triads if you want.

https://youtu.be/VTu8wjihN7c?si=0Ek5EwHHnPUYrd1q

The biggest hurdle for trying to understand how chords work on the pedal steel is getting past the “it’s a big autoharp with a capo” misconception.

[Nathan Pocock]

Hi Cam, as a recent convert myself I see some things in your posts that remind me of me. I was intimidated by the psg but in retrospect I shouldn’t have been. I did the lap steel thing with palm benders, went to 3x2 e9, added two more levers and I have a d10 on the way. My advice would be, if you like classic steel then just jump in don’t do the incremental thing. Sounds like you have a solid musical foundation, the physical coordination will happen.

[Colin Boutilier]

6 string guitar to E9 PSG is actually quite intuitive, at least until you're far enough in to be hooked anyways.

Pedals up positions have the same root frets as guitar using E shape Barre chords. The relative minor chords are a pedal push away.

Pedals down matches your A shape barre chords.

E-Lower chords match the C shape barre chords.

Minor chords are two pedals and two frets away from the Em shape barre chords.


Any guitar player can quickly get into a lot of chords, in a couple of places on the neck. By the time you're ready to move beyond that, you're already hooked on the instrument for life.